P / PJ / PH Wagons

“P” Wagons were listed in the original wagon classification code introduced in 1890 as an 8 wheeled platform wagons. Other railway owner/operators may call this type of wagon a flat car or flat trucks. The term “Flats” was used in Queensland shunting yards, but it referred to open wagons (F, FF, FJ, FJS, FG, H, HJ, HJS class wagons). Yard Orders for Monday afternoon could say hold 10 F of Flats for wool and place on ramp for 7 AM loading Tuesday. It was up to the Shunter in Charge to select the wagons from empties on hand. One “F” was the length of the smallest wagon in traffic, a 4 wheeled “F” wagon which was 15 foot long. An “H” wagon (30’) was 2 F, thus the Shunter in Charge could place 5 H wagons or 8 FJS to fill orders.

 

2 F was the orders on Westgate for today, HJS wagon supplied.

The unit was also used for making up trains, the maximum length of train hauled by a PB15 engine was 60 F. With the introduction of metric measure in the early 70’s the term was changed to a “unit” which was 5 metres. The maximum length of a train without an authority was 90 units. In the 90’s train lengths measure changed again, this time it was actual metres, i.e., a 2400 class DEL of 3.6 units became 18 metres (The unit length by 5 was close to the mark). The maximum length of train for a single DEL became 650 metres. This length of train did cause a few wagon braking issues with older wagons being marshalled on the rear, resulting in instructions being issued to which class of wagon that could be marshalled at the back of a train. Longer train can run subject to approval and could vary from line to line. Today trains have 2 lengths, static length of the vehicle and the stretched length taking into account drawgear movement within the train. A train of 40 wagons has approx. 1 wagon of slack within the drawgear/draft packs etc.  I’m getting off the subject, so back to “P” wagons.

The QR plan book has the following plans

P 176 (Originally 61) dated 5/1/14. 32’ long x 8’ wide, bar frame bogies with 4’ wheel centres, 2’ 2” wheels with 7x3 journals. Ave Tare 7 ton 11 cwt, carry 12 Ton 9 cwt.  Gross 20 tons.

P 177 (Originally 62) dated 22/2/16. 32’ long x 8’ wide, bar frame bogies with 4’ 9” wheel centres, 2’ 9½” wheels with 8x4 journals, Ave Trae 9 ton 16 cwt, carry 22 ton 4 cwt. Gross 32 tons.

P 178 (Originally 63) PJ 12125. 32’ long x 8’ 9” wide, bar frame bogies with 5’ wheel centres, 2’ 2” wheels with 8x4 journals.

P 181 PTH wagons, converted from PT class in 1938. Underframe 22’ by 7’ 9” fitted with sides 3’ 6” high, centre door 8’ long by 2’ 6” high.

Wooden 8 wheeled “P” Wagons

Class	Length	Width	Tare	Carry	Remarks
P	26’	7’ 6”	6 T 9 C	13 T 11C	Approx. 32 in service. 4’ Bar frame bogie
P	30’	7’ 6”	6 T 19 C	13 T 1C	Approx. 5 in service. 4’ Bar frame bogie
P	32’	7’ 6”	6 T 7C	13T 13c	Approx. 21 in Service. 4’ Bar frame bogie
P	26’	7’ 6”	6 T 13 C	13 T 7 C	Approx. 10 in Service. 4’ Bar frame bogie
P	32’	8’	7T 11 C	12T 9C	Approx. 8 in Service. 4’ Bar frame bogie
PH	26’	6’ 4”	7 T	25T	1 in Service No. 2172. 5’ bar frame bogie
PJ	32’	8’	9T 7C	22T 13C	3 in Service. BF bogie with 4’ 9” wheel centres 33½” wheels.
PJ	30’	7’ 6”	7 T	27 T	1 in Service. BF bogie 5’ wheel centres 33½” wheels. Reclassed to PH
PJ	32’	8’	10T 12C	21T 8C	# 12125 Timber chocks for boilers. BF bogie 5’ wheel centres 26” wheels.
PJ / PH	26’	7’ 6”	7T	25T	1 of each. BF bogie 5’ wheel centres 26” wheels.
PJ / PH	32’	8’	9T 10C	22 T 10C	1 of each. BF bogie 5’ wheel centres 26” wheels.
PJC	50’	8’ 6”	12 T 4 C	19T 16 C	# 32669-32673. Bogies 5’ wheel centres 33½” wheels. Converted from carriages for cars?? 1963.
PJM	32’	8’	9T 6 C	22T 14C	# 18536 Drop centre floor.
PT	22’	7’ 9”	10T 7 C	21T 13C	12 in service. Bogies 5’ wheel centres 33½” wheels.  T for Tank/Traction. ??
PTH	22’	8’	10T 11C	21T 9C	7 in Service, 3’ 6” sides with a 2’ 6” centre door. BF bogie 5’ wheel centres 33½” wheels. # 19091 converted to Ipswich W/S shunt runner. H/B wheel on headstock.
PWT	22”	9’ 2”	9T 13C	22T 7C	12 in Service. Bogies 5’ wheel centres 33½” wheels.
PWX	40’	8’ 9”	11 T 5C	28T 15C	#29397 – 29399. Bogies 5’ wheel centres 26” wheels. (Numbers suggest about early 50’, maybe MTW’s )?? Two PWE wagons (4 wheeled well wagons) were built for the electrification project)

P and PJ wagons had an approval in the General Appendix for an overload of 1½tons. 

PTH Toowoomba 1974

 

PTH Ipswich Workshop 1979.

 

In the mid 1950 the methods of transporting goods was changing, wheat/sugar started to move away from bags to bulk handling. Many W/MTW wagons in the wheat traffic found work in the seasonal sugar traffic (July – December), this also made a number of wagons available to general traffic. The longer, steel frame MTW wagons providing a number of advantages over the timber frame P wagon. By 1960 the “P” wagons were not big in numbers, but where was quite a mix with some having special use, below is some info from the 1960 annual report.   

Class	June 59	June 60
P	8	8
PJ	2	2
PJM	1	1
PT	19	8
PTH	3	3
PWT	2	0
PX / PE	0	10

 Reading a list of derailments for 1950, a number of PT/PTH/PWT derailments were recorded across the state.

In 1969 most wooden Jumbo (J class) wagons (8 ton axel load with 8 x 4 journals) on the QR network were reclassed and had their carrying capacity down rated to carry 12 tons, PJ wagons became PH wagons. .  

With the introduction of bigger steel wagons in the mid 60’s (QFX), not many wooden “P” wagons made it past the end of steam

The 1982 Rollingstock Book showed 3 PH wagons in traffic.

PH Yeerongpilly 1979

 

P wagons carried various types of loads, mainly wheeled vehicles, machinery, plant and were used as runner (match/cover) wagons for long loads hanging off other wagons. 

Peter Kennedy who was Manager of Special Loads for many years and was on the QR Rollingstock committee add some information on PJC wagons.  Probably in the mid-sixties a new type of galv iron roofing came on the market under the trade name of ‘’klipklock’’in long strips and initially were conveyed on 32’ P type or 40’ MTW wagons., Gradually the lengths of this strip roofing increased and we found 50ft lengths could be carried on 40ft. MTW wagons by extending 5ft beyond each end of the wagon and using a runner wagon each end for which the customer paid an extra 2 tons freight for each runner wagon. Obviously the customer didn't like paying for otherwise empty runner wagons, also we dislikes using 3 wagons for little payload. I found out older timber carriages on 50 ft. steel underframes were being scrapped and we saw an answer. Several 50ft carriages steel underframes were timber decked as flat wagons and used for 50 ft. roofing and classified as PJC wagons. As these underframes were rather weak they were restricted to 10ton capacity.  Soon however we were asked to carry 60 ft. lengths of roofing and again we used two runner wagons and a PJC. It should be noted that 5ft was the max. length of unsupported roofing extending beyond the end of the wagon before the risk of buckling may occur.  Again we were asked to take longer lengths. To achieve this we made up several ‘’outriggers” were made from 60lbs rails bolted to the ends of QFC wagons and projecting a further 5ft beyond each end so that the overall length of the wagon was 60 ft. and allowing for 5ft. unsupported overhang each we could carry ‘’Kliplock’’ roofing up to 70ft max length again using a runner each end. Because of the increased mass of the roofing as it got longer we needed to use QFC wagons as the mass of the roofing exceeded the 10ton load limit on PJC wagons. Reference to para 14.1 of the ‘’loading booklet’’ will explain more. When not needed the ‘’outriggers’’ were removed from the QFC wagons allowing them to return to normal use. The PJC wagons were also seen as a suitable light weight low capacity wagons suitable for motorcars and were fitted with car restraining bars and reclassified MPJC. Later more 50 ft. carriage steel underframes were modified for car traffic and classed ML. 

On Westgate, I have a number of “P” wagons.

Wagon 1. “P” wagon with rain water tank. The wagon was scratch build using Evergreen styrene, Caintode Flats bogies with Kadee whisker 158 coupling. The coupler box were built into the floor during construction. I was given the CGI tank, it is 10’ 6” wide and looked too big to go beside a house. Wide “Out of Gauge” tanks were regularly consigned from Beaudesert. Saw mill offcuts were place over the bottom rim of the tank and nailed to the wagon floor clear of the tank. Rope (cotton) was placed over the top to add extra securing. The FJS wagon following has also been loaded with smaller tanks on their sides.

Wagon 2. “PH” Wagon with 2 Tractor was built in the same manner at the P wagon above. The tractors were picked up at a buy & sell, and repainted. One was fitted with a blade on the front, a canopy for the operator and a slasher on the back, all items were knocked up from styrene. The tractors were secured with sleepers and chain.

 The next four wagons have just entered service on the layout.

Wagon 3. “PJ” wagon with a Massey Ferguson MF 830 Combine Header. The wagon was build as above from styrene and Caintode Flats bogies.

The Massey Ferguson Combine is an Artitec kit. The kit consisted of some 40 parts, including approx. 25 etch brass parts plus 10 decals. www.artitec.nl

Wagons 4, 5 and 6. These three wagons are 26’ wagons, built in the same manner as the other wagons. They are being used as runner (Cover/match trucks) for long over length loads on other wagons.

 

 

Longer pipes can be carried on the prototype using this method of loading, on the layout with tighter curves they would be very much an issue.

I used scraps to make the floor on the 26’ “P” wagons, dunnage from a previous load was used to cover the join visible in the floor. .    

 

All the “P” wagons have been marshalled into a train for their first run on the layout.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCDoUKTWN0M

In the early 70’s the “P” classification took on a new meaning. At the start most were cut down steel wagons to carry one ISO container, then 2 containers. As always there were a few exceptions along the way. I cover this in a later post.

Enjoy.

Arthur H.